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Knowing the Path

It's been an entertaining 4 weeks of a, lets say, "exotic" World Cup intermingled with going through the NeuroHacking Tutorials. I want to congratulate Alex and all involved for providing such needed information in this world, in an engaging format. I'll try to spread the word, unmodified, through output channels to trusted allies. Thank you dudes!

  My next goal is comprehending better the Neurotransmission mechanism and I would like to ask for suggestions where in the library should I begin? =) I'll post what exactly I mean by this statement, soon, in a new thread, where potential similarly interested members could focus on this issue.

  Here I'll leave a few points raised after the tutorials, that could perhaps be better elucidated by more experienced members, thank you:

- If networks can take over functions from others, functions they are not designed to, then is it possible that after a while, exercises meant for `downsized` networks, the ones we would practice for reverse this damage, would actually make those networks continue to work wrongly to accomplish the task? Its obvious that eventually the right networks would kick in for the simple reason of input connections(and patterns) dont change (i.e. if you make physical exercise n1 and n2 would get the input first simply because they are directly connected to muscles and the rest of the body), BUT, in the beginning (and the higher the network/complexity/abstraction) the exercise would perpetuate a bit of the dysfunction, though indeed gradually less so, explaining the empirical knowledge that any exercise is always less effective at the beginning (though of course not the only reason). Comments?

- Perhaps its implied when the tutorial mentions a network that is taking over actually subverts others for its purposes, but its still treated as if only 1 network is taking over. I would say, and this is important for recovery, that unholy alliances can probably be formed. E.g. suppose front loaders suddenly (and unlikely) comes to its senses (literally =)) and sees the need to work `backwards` (as in towards the back of the brain), but not necessarily in exact reverse order, nevertheless, obsessively bound by misguided logic, such a frontloader proceeds to work n3 as much as he can before doing the same to n2 and n1. We can probably predict that n3 will be subverted to the use of the front nets to feel good ("alright, you dont want to be a cold robot, then u will be feeling what i tell u to" says n4/n5 =)), ONLY when logic, arrogance and the such comes up, and actually feel bad when u do, OR EVEN PLAN TO DO, some exercise! This seems so blatant in some sectors of current society that i wont even ask if that isnt what we see around coach potatoes when they get lazy. =) the point is, to use tutorial terminology, there can be coordinated mutiny.=)

- it seems, by the neurotransmitters requirements, that there is a pattern of optimal usage sequence of networks that follow from increased or decreased blood flow and specific neurotransmitters. something like n1 => n4 => n2 => n5 => n1 ... mediated by n6 and n3.. if i can have access to neurotransmitters usage patterns research i could perhaps try to mathematically optimize a time sharing policy for us. Any available?

- In the 2nd tutorial, it says anxiety reduces blood flow to front nets, and increases to the muscle skeletal system. That seems to leave front loaders in a much worse situation than rear loaders, no? basically their whole brain is shutdown by being commanded by a downsized network in bad shape.

- Funny, i believe paranoia can also emerge from rear net shutdown, not only front net shutdown. no?

- Any more data on those other 600 factors affecting sleep?

- The lower body temperature, on low GI diet, would mean you are MORE susceptible to cold(i.e. lower temperature), or LESS susceptible? i mean, in a slightly cold day, one would be less prone to wearing a sweater than under high GI?

- when the tutorial says "corn products", its only the "bought product", right? it does not include the whole thing milled at home and consumed, doest it? I've found new research that indexes Corn Tortillas as quite low GI. The refined procedure seems to be the culprit, again the little human trying to one-up evolution =)

- Whats wrong with glycerin?(to the skin)

- in the functional analysis, a little language barrier smile i have no idea what you mean by "staying power". Is it like keep on a task? like, concentration or attention?

- How to figure n1 & n2 strength in the functional analysis, i mean, if i simply divide by 2 they would never go over 50% as strong as they may be, which would almost certainly make them the weakest. Yet, i cant figure from the example, since even dividing by 2 dont change its position. Why is n3 considered stronger there?

- I dont get the 33, 16, 16 16 16, ideal percentages.. i mean, how come FA can ever come up with this if there are 40 F questions for n1 and n2 and also 40 for all the rest.. did I count wrong? I know exercise is essential for neurotransmitters production and mental health (as well as bodily) but it seems to be justifying a bias towards working n1&2.

- tut 7: the memory strength assessment is referred to before declaration in that context. Furthermore, LTP is also used but never declared or defined, I took it to mean long term potentiation, since we were talking about memory there. The term is only defined in the next tutorial.

- tut8 mentions tut 10, but there is no such tut in yahoo groups repository. Has it been made yet? i mean, should one look for it?

- tut 9 says n3 and n6 is emotional, imaginative and strategic stretching and relaxing, n3 is said to be stressing and n6 is said to be relaxing, but wouldnt that mean that n3 would be responsible for strategy and not n6? or is strategy considered relaxing? (it might be, i dont know)

Thanks!
MM

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Alex
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Re: Knowing the Path

MM wrote:

  My next goal is comprehending better the Neurotransmission mechanism and I would like to ask for suggestions where in the library should I begin?

Long mail; get coffee  :  )

The search terms: signaling, neurotransmitters, synapse, neurotransmission, wiring
will help you some, but this is such a huge subject of study that if you want specific details you'll have to narrow down the questions.

Start by listing which of the following aspects of neurotransmission most interests you:
The anatomy & physiology/brain architecture (hardware)
Genes, epigenetics, plasticity & neurotransmission
The types of behaviors linked with neurotransmission
The chemistry & chemical interactions & processes involved
Emotions, mood & hormones
How neurotransmission features in program execution via N3 (learning & memory)
Problems or things that can go wrong
Brainwaves & neurotransmission
Interaction & neurotransmission
Links that unify the neurotransmission system

If you're interested in all of them, start with the first aspect as your keywords and work down. If you can't find the info, tell us the aspect/s you're studying and we'll put together the information for you from latest research.



- If networks can take over functions from others, functions they are not designed to, then is it possible that after a while, exercises meant for `downsized` networks, the ones we would practice for reverse this damage, would actually make those networks continue to work wrongly to accomplish the task? Its obvious that eventually the right networks would kick in for the simple reason of input connections(and patterns) dont change (i.e. if you make physical exercise n1 and n2 would get the input first simply because they are directly connected to muscles and the rest of the body), BUT, in the beginning (and the higher the network/complexity/abstraction) the exercise would perpetuate a bit of the dysfunction, though indeed gradually less so, explaining the empirical knowledge that any exercise is always less effective at the beginning (though of course not the only reason). Comments?

A 'downsized' network is one that isn't used much rightly or wrongly, so its functions are unlikely to be well developed. However you are right -see below

- Perhaps its implied when the tutorial mentions a network that is taking over actually subverts others for its purposes, but its still treated as if only 1 network is taking over. I would say, and this is important for recovery, that unholy alliances can probably be formed. E.g. suppose front loaders suddenly (and unlikely) comes to its senses (literally =))

class humor  :  )


and sees the need to work `backwards` (as in towards the back of the brain), but not necessarily in exact reverse order, nevertheless, obsessively bound by misguided logic, such a frontloader proceeds to work n3 as much as he can before doing the same to n2 and n1. We can probably predict that n3 will be subverted to the use of the front nets to feel good ("alright, you dont want to be a cold robot, then u will be feeling what i tell u to" says n4/n5 =)), ONLY when logic, arrogance and the such comes up, and actually feel bad when u do, OR EVEN PLAN TO DO, some exercise! This seems so blatant in some sectors of current society that i wont even ask if that isnt what we see around coach potatoes when they get lazy. =) the point is, to use tutorial terminology, there can be coordinated mutiny.=)

'Mutiny' can only ever be pulled off by one network controlling all the others when it shouldn't be. It may not even be one of yours; someone else's N4 can take over all your networks and tell then what to do, and they'll spend all their time trying to satisfy that other person's wants.

Why can't you have a 'coordinated mutiny'? The alpha (ruling) network either won't accept competition or is eventually overrun by another strong network or by healthy development. Let's make an example to clarify that:
Say Network 5 is being a tyrant, and using the function of imagination (from N3) to figure out how to steal stuff from people or con them, and the function of defense (also from N3) to pay thugs to install 9mm third nostrils in anyone who objects. We're pretty clear that's not healthy use, right?

So our dude stuck in N5 decides he's not coming up with good schemes very often so let's do some N3 exercises to develop imagination, and of course N5 can subvert this function at first; just like working out in the gym and eating well can equally help the body of a firefighter or a psycho killer perform their stunts. BUT the very act of building up these networks actually physically grows them more, making them more likely to want to use themselves as intended and more keen to do their own thing, much like annoyed teenagers. If they reach a critical mass of density they will start doing their own thing whether N5 likes it or not (and in the case we are using as example, this would result in 'cognitive dissonance', often described as the experience of “being in two minds” about something.)

Because 'their own thing' might still be another kind of wronguse, it IS possible to regress; i.e. to go from being stuck in N5 to being stuck in N3, but a more usual outcome is return to the original stuck space because the anxiety about change (and all this other new weird unknown stuff from N3 that is starting to happen since imagination booted up), dumbs down the rising network and allows the old mutineer to carry on. (The person believes they have now "seen through" the con that said you could improve imagination and now knows it's nonsense. Interestingly, that's because N5 can only imagine 'being conned' as the reason for failure because that's what it does best itself -that's classic projection.)

Every individual case is different, but usually the resulting dilemma forces confrontation and change or (more usual) denial and retreat and loss of interest. The eventual outcome for the individual depends on how anxious they are/become, like many other things.


- it seems, by the neurotransmitters requirements, that there is a pattern of optimal usage sequence of networks that follow from increased or decreased blood flow and specific neurotransmitters. something like n1 => n4 => n2 => n5 => n1 ... mediated by n6 and n3.. if i can have access to neurotransmitters usage patterns research i could perhaps try to mathematically optimize a time sharing policy for us. Any available?

Gosh it's a lot more dynamic than this -remember we are parallel processing lotsa different things at the same time.
N-trans usage patterns are based on what input is coming through and what sort of behavioral output is predicted as probably necessary. But a lot of them work in reciprocal relationships, some are inversely related or proportional, and some work in small groups or cascades following a set (and often timed) subroutine. Others can shift their variable around depending on circumstances and others suddenly flood the system when encountering a checksum error.

Procedural memory dictates a lot of automatic cascades, and sensorimotor memory regulates others. Many transmitters modulate the behavior of combinations of others, and by now you are probably getting the impression that neurochemistry is forbiddingly complicated, but rest assured it's all good fun  :  )

When there is one main focus, for example a specific learning project, we use the networks in the order they are listed in the COMP process.


- In the 2nd tutorial, it says anxiety reduces blood flow to front nets, and increases to the muscle skeletal system. That seems to leave front loaders in a much worse situation than rear loaders, no? basically their whole brain is shutdown by being commanded by a downsized network in bad shape.

Rear loaders are not necessarily stuck in a matrix; they may just be in the midst of ongoing development (and everyone under the age of 7 SHOULD be a rearloader if they're healthy.)
Likewise you can get away with some frontloading if rear nets are small but balanced, and connective busses are good, without getting stuck in a matrix.

Anxiety-related loss of blood flow acts like malnutrition; during development,  it does actually retard the growth of the network and it will end up smaller and less dense that one grown in a non-anxious chemistry. N6 may hardly develop at all. After development, it affects performance (many people's anxiety levels are retarding executive functions as much as being over the 'safe to drive' blood-alcohol limit will do).

Once developed, a network (hardware) won't shut down unless it's both short of nutrients and long unused; what shuts down s the program of intelligence, which can't run on this system. Most front loaders run “I'm Clever” written by N5 instead, and most rear loaders run “I'm big butch and sexy” written by N2. Both have lots of bugs in.


- Funny, i believe paranoia can also emerge from rear net shutdown, not only front net shutdown. no?

Absolutely; lack of N2 leaves people noticeably timid, too much N2 can make them very suspicious. Lack of N5 strips away self confidence, too much N5 leads to manic behavior. Lacking a strong N1, having an overactive N3 in wronguse, or N4 in nonuse/wronguse are also risk factors for paranoia.


- Any more data on those other 600 factors affecting sleep?

If you think of a subject 'x' and type into google “sleep + x” you will probably get a result  :  ) All our basic biological functions are affected by multiple factors, being so 'attuned' might seem like a pain in the ass, but it's an advantage in adaptation, and evolution likes adaptation a lot. The result for scientists is an endless list of things that affect us!

From a practical point of view in NH we can only affect some of those factors ourselves anyway, so it's probably best to choose the ones that affect us most (so those are the ones we mention).


- The lower body temperature, on low GI diet, would mean you are MORE susceptible to cold(i.e. lower temperature), or LESS susceptible? i mean, in a slightly cold day, one would be less prone to wearing a sweater than under high GI?

Obviously any stored fat you start off carrying will be a variable here, but once settled most find it necessary to wear more jumpers. It's a small price to pay for longevity  :  ) Blood pressure is lower too.

- when the tutorial says "corn products", its only the "bought product", right? it does not include the whole thing milled at home and consumed, doest it? I've found new research that indexes Corn Tortillas as quite low GI. The refined procedure seems to be the culprit, again the little human trying to one-up evolution =)

Wow can you share your research sources? (Haven't heard this)

- Whats wrong with glycerin?(to the skin)

The main problem with glycerin is that samples of it have been found to be infected with BSE.
Secondly, it can cause anaphylactic shock responses in those allergic to it.
There's some evidence that glycerin in products on skin can be drying, causing blisters if left on too long as they can increase water loss by attracting water from the lower layers of skin into the surface layers.



- in the functional analysis, a little language barrier  i have no idea what you mean by "staying power". Is it like keep on a task? like, concentration or attention?

Yes; the ability to see a project through to the end; determination despite mistakes or difficulties, continuing intent to succeed, patience, duration, stamina, enduring strength & energy, reliability.

- How to figure n1 & n2 strength in the functional analysis, i mean, if i simply divide by 2 they would never go over 50% as strong as they may be, which would almost certainly make them the weakest. Yet, i cant figure from the example, since even dividing by 2 dont change its position. Why is n3 considered stronger there?

To learn well we have to find enough points of similarity between what we know now and the new unknown data so we can incorporate it into the known without being overwhelmed by too much unknown. This is the first FA, and beginners don't need the extra details till some practical work has been accomplished. If we made the first FA more complex, it would give more information, but newbies would be overwhelmed (and the tutorial would be twice as long), so it is kept as simple as possible while still able to gather enough data to make a plan. When all the beginners' tutorials are done (this is probably going to be 6) we'll introduce a new FA with more details for the 'intermediate' tutorials.

- I dont get the 33, 16, 16 16 16, ideal percentages.. i mean, how come FA can ever come up with this if there are 40 F questions for n1 and n2 and also 40 for all the rest.. did I count wrong? I know exercise is essential for neurotransmitters production and mental health (as well as bodily) but it seems to be justifying a bias towards working n1&2.

The questions are not related to single networks only.


There are no tutorials on this site above #5 because the older ones need updating and those over # 9 are not complete. I've addressed this in the yahoo group posts, if you still need information let me know.
If you are learning faster than we can get stuff online, you can contact me personally and view research, partial tutorials, unfinished articles or unedited drafts, but bear in mind this will be a lot less coherent than what gets put on here  :  )

One question remains relevant though:


is strategy considered relaxing?

Strategy in N6 relies on prediction from N3 (it's now becoming clear that they are the brain's CPU), and yes, strategy is considered as something that must be carried out calmly and in a relaxed state. It's about sitting back enjoying your current position, then reflecting on all the evidence, considering it at your leisure and deciding where best to go next. It's like planning the next party, the next mission to mars, or what you're going to do with some great thing you just built or great idea you just had. It's like feeling 100% established, right where you belong; respected, loved and nourished, and from the joy of that space having the power to interact with the universe; stretch out your hand and create more beauty.*
Best,
AR

*Note to opioid users: Yes I know  :  )


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Scalino
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Re: Knowing the Path

Hi dudes,

Alex wrote:


There are no tutorials on this site above #5 because the older ones need updating and those over # 9 are not complete.
Just a remark, I've still to finish the edition of tutorial 5, so if you want to read it, you have to do that on the yahoo group. Now, it won't be very long, it'll be published here in "NHA style" most likely during this very week-end.

See ya!


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Scalino
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Re: Knowing the Path

Hi dude,

MM800 wrote:


*Note to opioid users: Yes I know  :  )

    Note to Webmasters: Scaaal! =) Anyway to increase the height of this reply box?(long posts suffers) Also, the preview window is very narrow, and gets bugged when the content must inevitably be scrolled horizontally. Another thing that might infuriate users is the lack of undoing (ctrl-z) in this window (though this might be an idiosyncrasy of my SW). Beautiful site btw! Congrats, dudes!
"opioid students", please... smile

Concerning the box height, please move your eyes towards the top-right corner of the box (just a little bit outside of it... see whatta mean?) and you will most probably see the term 'Size' with 2 little links + and - at its side. You should play with those, might be related... smile

However, it won't have any consequence on the preview size / layout. I'll see what I can do to enhance that, though it won't be among top priorities of days to come.

About the CTRL+Z shortcut, it's working for me. (anyone lese has the problem?) Technically it's processing in LIFO mode (Last In First Out) on your typing actions, cursor and selection moves, etc...

Maybe the settings of your browser.

Have fun anyway...


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Re: Knowing the Path

MM800 Wrote:
even if a given activity dont have a dominant network or neurotrasmitter pattern it can still fill in other steps in the plan.. for instance, suppose my strategy dictates I should proceed to working out N4 to get/use some acetylcholine, but I choose an activity with N4,N3 and N2 as major players, such as Jigsaw Puzzle =), THEN I will just wont need so much intensity/time next time my strategy dictates me to workout N3 and N2 for oxytocin and dopamine.. =)

All activities of all kinds use neurotransmitters, and all but the most simple follow patterns. If your strategy tells you to work on N4, presumably you already would have the rear nets balanced, so all that is happening with your chosen N4.N3/N2 activity is that you're keeping the networks in good shape that you've already developed AND improving N4  :  )
[a]
by now you are probably getting the impression that neurochemistry is forbiddingly complicated, but rest assured it's all good fun : )
[m]
Actually I was starting to get even more interested! If we manage to get that on the compendium and eventual SW we were discussing @yahoo, it could make extremely intelligent suggestions.. unless this can actually be felt (a possibility Im going to mention in my future post) which would make any SW a clumsy obsolete contraption.

I need to know more about this as I didn't really understand it so I'll wait for other post.


[m]
Less than 2 years ago, ALL GI & GL values have been revised, in a 'truly international effort', check it out: http://www.mendosa.com/gilists.htm I dont think the actual method or measures have changed, one would have to read the original article to be sure: http://care.diabetesjournals.org/conten … 1.abstract But 55 GI is now considered low and a GL of 10 is considered low. A Corn tortilla has 46 GI (error margin of 4 points for more OR for less)

I've been relying on the following two sites so far as the most reliable source of info, as they're focusing on the chemistry only rather than researching food in relation to a specific disease:
http://www.glycemicindex.com/
http://www.fao.org/docrep/w8079e/w8079e0a.htm
But in several areas even they do not agree! Since processing most foods increases their GI, I would expect the same of corn, but things have gotten complicated because now there is GM corn/ cornflour available with much higher sugar content, plus many canneries use sugar water for preservation.
The practical way to judge the effect of a food is to look at the BMIs of people who eat a lot of it. Areas where processed corn products form a main part of diet do have the highest obesity figures, but those areas also drink the most soda and have the highest growth-hormone concentrations in their meat. So one cannot point the finger at corn products alone -like anything else it's usually a combination of factors.

[m]
do you really believe this protein, experts arent even sure to cause BSE, could be absorbed by the skin? And then head to the head to destroy the brain? Not even if you made an enema with a bowl of glycerin! Any data that proves me wrong? =)

Glycerin is a main product in oral medications, jello, jams & jellies, cakes and all sorts of products that people eat. Discouraging use of it draws attention to why, and folks may change their diets and choose for example glycerin-free vitamins etc.
[m]

No allergies for metalborn MM-800 =) Except, of course, for NITRO-glycerin
One tablet now and again is quite fun, it's a bit like Amyl  :  )

[a]
When all the beginners' tutorials are done (this is probably going to be 6) we'll introduce a new FA with more details for the 'intermediate' tutorials.
[m]
WOW, I can barely wait! =)

There are so many things to do right now that it may be some wait! It would be good to know what to work on first; at the moment we're trying to keep up with the forums, we need more articles in the library and to get all the site details tidied up, it seems to be relatively bug-free thanks to Scal's great work and even greater patience  :  ) The tutorials are next on the list after filling out the library a bit more.
[m]
- I dont get the 33, 16, 16 16 16, ideal percentages.. i mean, how come FA can ever come up with this if there are 40 F questions for n1 and n2 and also 40 for all the rest.. did I count wrong? I know exercise is essential for neurotransmitters production and mental health (as well as bodily) but it seems to be justifying a bias towards working n1&2.

Keeping the tradition of quoting The Matrix: 'You haven`t answered my question' lol =)
Warning: LOUD noise at the very end.

I thought the question was 'did I count wrong?' -what I mean is there are NOT 40 questions for N1&2 etc...Have I missed the point?
Exercise benefits all networks simply because of increased blood flow & oxygenation, delivery of nutrients, production of endorphins/relaxation response etc.
Best,
AR


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